Boundaries, Self-Worth and Saying No with Barb Nangle | Part 3 of 3

Summary: In Part 3, Barb and Katie wrap up with a conversation about time boundaries, why rest feels unsafe, and what is really happening in the nervous system when we cannot stop producing. Barb shares how she went from coaching seven days a week and recording her podcast on Sunday nights to protecting her weekends entirely, and how the Pomodoro technique and time blocking changed her ability to focus and create.

She also speaks candidly about her own journey with scarcity, the deeply internalized belief that she needed to produce to be worthy, and the practice she now uses to interrupt catastrophic thinking before it takes over.

Key Takeaways
→ Discipline equals freedom. Structure does not cage you. It gives you the container within which you can actually feel safe and creative.

→ Time blocking and the Pomodoro technique are boundaries. Working in focused 25-minute blocks with intentional breaks is not just a productivity hack. It is a form of self-respect.

→ Rest feels unsafe because of what comes up when we stop. Thoughts, feelings and fears that we have been numbing or avoiding start surfacing. The avoidance of those feelings is what makes rest feel dangerous.

→ Feelings move through faster than we think. Barb describes fully experiencing a wave of suppressed emotion in seven to fifteen seconds. Years of bracing to avoid something that lasts less than a minute.

→ Internal boundaries are real. Boundaries of self-containment means noticing when catastrophic thoughts start and choosing to interrupt them. You get to decide what you think about.

→ The fear of rest is usually the fear of inadequacy or the belief that you need to produce to be worthy. Slowly teaching your nervous system that it is safe to be at rest is a practice, not a switch.

→ Worry has never been what gets us through hard times. Presence has. Being in the current moment is the practice that actually builds resilience.

Where to Find Barb
Free 30 minute "Say No without Guilt" call
Podcast
Website
LinkedIn
Youtube
What's Draining Your Boundaries Quiz

Transcript

Katie Wrigley (00:28)
I think anybody listening, like you've already heard, like get more energy, you're defining where you end, where someone else begins, like all of these things. What are the importance of boundaries in a business sense as well to help make the life of the entrepreneur easier? Because we've done a fantastic job.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (00:29)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Katie Wrigley (00:46)
of talking about the importance of personal boundaries, and we all know we need to have those. But sometimes

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (00:46)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Katie Wrigley (00:52)
in a business, that codependency comes back in, especially for new business owners who are still growing their business. We have to please them, the customer is always right, and we can lose track of boundaries.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (00:53)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. So I have a lot to say about this because one, I identify very strongly as an entrepreneur myself. Two, I do a lot of networking, especially with women entrepreneurs, most of whom suck at boundaries. And three, I have privately coached quite a number of entrepreneurs. So I have a lot of experience around this.

So boundaries as an entrepreneur include like people with poor boundaries in business often do things like this. They do not charge at least market rate for their services. They allow scope creep. So a customer pays for a service and then they give them more and more and more and more and more and they become depleted.

think that they're the only ones that can do everything. So they don't delegate, they don't ask for help. They also neglect themselves and don't fill their cup and therefore have no overflow and are constantly bending over backwards and accommodating other people. I wanna give like a case study. is probably the first, I think this is the first entrepreneur that I ever coached.

So she was a social media manager at the time. And the way she started in the social media world was she was a young person who worked in a restaurant who was going to school for graphic design. And so she was relatively social media savvy and the owners of the restaurant were not. So she started doing their social media. Then they opened another restaurant and she started doing the social media. So these were personal friends of hers that she did this as a favor and she charged them just basically pennies.

And so then her business expanded from there and it was so overwhelming to her that she couldn't handle it. So I was like, okay, like at minimum you need to charge market rate. And she's like, they're not going to pay it. And I'm like, and then you let them go. She's like, I can't, can't, I can't. So what we did was we built a three tiered system for her where she had packages that people could pay for package A, B or C. And then if they wanted to pay for all the cart services, they could, but it was a premium.

And so she was like, I can't give this to these people. Like she just didn't have it within her to go to these people and say, this is what's going on. So I said, all right, fine. Just keep them where they're at, but now start offering these packages to new clients. So she starts getting new clients who low and by the way, we also, she got a separate phone that was just for her business that she only used during business hours. And she taught her new clients, this is how you communicate with me.

Katie Wrigley (03:22)
Nice.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (03:26)
This is the scope of the work. If it goes beyond that, then you will pay the a la carte rate for my services. You get package A, B or C. People were like, absolutely, they paid it. They started communicating with her. They didn't expect her to manage all. She created the content and posted it. They did the responding, whereas at the restaurant, she was 100%. The people at the restaurants didn't know anything.

So she started building up clientele and she got to see the difference between these new clients where she had boundaries around the scope of work, the type of products, the way they communicated, how much she charged and in comparison and contrast, contrast to the ongoing clients. And she was like, no, like I cannot continue doing this. So she gave them two months notice that in two months, these are the packages.

Katie Wrigley (04:18)
Mm-hmm.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (04:18)
And they were like, we can't pay that. And she was like, well, then you'll have to find someone else. And they both of the restaurants ended up stopping doing social media entirely. And she could live with it because she basically built herself a ramp up to working onto that by showing herself, ⁓ I actually can have boundaries and thrive in my business. So that's a really specific example of what it can look like to go from no boundaries to

you know, having healthy boundaries. So do you want to ask some questions about that before I? ⁓

Katie Wrigley (04:50)
Yeah, I'm like already in my head, like,

we're going to make this a three part episode because what you're talking about is so important. So we're just going to It's like, ooh, this is just this is this is so good. So like the specifics that you brought in so many people, the way that they see that is like, they can't afford it. And I want to help them. Like what is happening with that person who's because I see it all the time and it's like, please stop doing that. And one of the things that's

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (04:56)
Okay. Okay. ⁓

Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Katie Wrigley (05:18)
help me cut to the side note before you answer that is like I do actually have a guarantee in the work that I do. And usually we can do that work in four sessions, but I am crystal clear on where the beginning state is. And to measure, did we move the needle? Because the guarantee is if we didn't move the needle, we keep going until we did. And that doesn't mean that we get you all the way to the goal. But if you have not made any progress,

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (05:32)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Katie Wrigley (05:45)
there's something

more important in your nervous system that we just need more time to get into. And so I will happily and with full energy give that time. Like I actually had a session earlier with someone that I was like, you know, something's telling me we need a fifth session. And he was a little upset. And I said, look, like the nervous system just needs time. Like years, like we unpacked something big in the last session and

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (05:50)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Katie Wrigley (06:08)
We also unpacked something even bigger today that was this huge pattern that he had never seen that was really impacting him. And it's like, look, this is why I do things the way I do. And we went back into his initial form, capture his words. He's like, ooh, just he's like, and he initially said, I want to work on this thing that I hired you for. And I go, well, let's go back to the form. Let's read your exact words. He's like,

Oh, actually, that second thing feels more important and I think they're linked. I'm like, yep, absolutely. You're one person, one nervous system. It's 100 % linked. So I have that clear boundary and I give freely because I have that. And it's very clearly defined for both of us as well. going back to that question is what is going on? What's really going on with that person who's

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (06:36)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

with, yeah. Right, right, right.

Katie Wrigley (06:57)
telling themselves that I am being at service to offer my services at less than market value, at less than what I'm worth is really what you're doing in order to help someone else. Like what is that driver in there, Barb?

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (07:07)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so they're prioritizing other people's well-being over their own because they think that's what they need to do to be safe. Because they grew up understanding, I need the people around me to be okay. I especially need them to be okay with me for me to be safe. And so I liked what you said. Like you decided the boundary is this.

Katie Wrigley (07:18)
Mm-hmm.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (07:34)
except under these circumstances, then it's this. You decided ahead of time. What I'm talking about entrepreneurs is who on the fly just always be like, okay, yes, I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it. And I think that, you know, there's, we have to address, there's a certain level of worthiness that they don't have. And I think that comes from constantly focusing outside yourself. You're not paying attention at all to you and what you want.

like, need, prefer, what's okay and not okay, because you grew up not feeling safe doing that. So you still think as an adult, I need my safety to be in, my safety comes from the external world and your safety actually comes from the internal world. You get to decide. And the other thing, there was something you said in there, I don't remember what it was, but it made me think of,

Katie Wrigley (08:15)
Yeah.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (08:25)
Oh, I know it was the way you asked the question that they'll work with anybody and they'll do whatever price because they feel like they have to. And maybe in the beginning, you have to be a little bit more accommodating than as because you need some feedback. You need to do some work and get feedback. But creating a niche is probably the most important thing you can do as a business owner. That is an extreme boundary. It is saying I work with these people. It doesn't mean like my niche is professional women who say yes.

Katie Wrigley (08:36)
Right.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (08:51)
when they really want to say no and who neglect themselves because they're so focused on others. Do I work with people who are not professional? Yes. I really don't work with men. I would, but Pete, like because I cater to professional women who say yes and who neglect themselves, I have certain messaging that those women absolutely hear me, see me, believe that I can help them.

Katie Wrigley (08:55)
Very clear.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (09:16)
But there are other people who also do too. So when we get our messaging really tight, that's a boundary that we have. And that's probably the most important boundary. And so many people are afraid of if I only speak to them, but I could serve everybody. Yes, you could. But when you serve everybody, you serve nobody. I'm sure you've heard that before. Right?

Katie Wrigley (09:36)
yes, lived it,

lived it in my early years too, yep. ⁓

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (09:40)
Right, exactly. Me too. Same, same, same,

same, same. Like I wasn't a boundaries coach in the beginning. I was a coach, you know, right? And it was like, I had to hone in. And then I realized it's like I, I worked at Yale University for 19 years. I'm a professional woman. So it makes sense for me because I saw the impact on my professional life, the ripple effect of me building boundaries.

in my workplace, on my team, on my organization, when it was just me building boundaries. So I know the impact that boundaries can have on professional women on top of the fact that I'm a sociologist by training. I came out of grad school wanting to level the playing field, especially in regard to race, class, gender, and sexual orientation.

And so I want women to move up into the power structures of society and they're not going to do it when they're neglecting themselves and saying yes to other people all the time. So I feel like my two missions of like carrying the message of recovery to those who still suffer specifically about boundaries and wanting to level the playing field have come together in my business now that I've honed in on professional women.

Katie Wrigley (10:33)
Yep. Yes.

Nice, I love that. Yeah, and it makes so much sense there.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (10:55)
And time is actually one of my most important boundaries. Mm-hmm.

Katie Wrigley (10:58)
Yes, yes, 100 % mine too.

Like I'm very, very structured with my time. I need that structure to have that creative freedom in there. And I really love how you brought that niche up there because there can be a lot of resistance to it. Like I had a one-on-one call with one of my business coaches last week actually, and you know, really honing in and my ideal client is a high performing woman who's done the coaching, done the therapy and still has this low hum of stress.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (11:05)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Katie Wrigley (11:27)
And she's also aware that the nervous system is the next place she wants to focus. But if you look out there, there's all sorts of stuff like, know, and like nervous system regulation, no one gives a shit. They give a shit about sleeping well, about enjoying their vacations, of being able to talk about it. But the people who come into me, they've all like, ooh, you do nervous system work? That's the next thing for me. Tell me more.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (11:27)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Katie Wrigley (11:51)
And I was like, feels limiting. He's like, you can literally never be too limited. Like the more precise you get, like the more people you're actually going to reach. And it feels very counterintuitive to someone who's new to boundaries who doesn't have boundaries to have that. And I also want to say one of the things that I found that's been really freeing since I got better in boundaries is

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (11:55)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm.

Katie Wrigley (12:15)
Every once in a while, I never understand why, but there's always something incredible that comes out of it. But every once in a while, it's like, want to gift you a session. Like, again, it's not a frequent thing, but every time I've done that, like the coolest shit has come out of that gift, not just for that person, but something really cool has come for me too. And so I've learned to listen to that. But before I had boundaries,

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (12:24)
Mm-hmm.

Katie Wrigley (12:40)
that would feel like I'm undervaluing myself and then I feel like crap because now, and then I'm not going to do as good of a job because I haven't included myself in what I need in this offer. Whereas when I'm crystal clear and I make it from a place of integrity and intuition and whatever's calling me, like, I feel good to make that offer. And it makes me even excited to go do the session later. Cause it's just like, what kind of magic's gonna come out of this?

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (12:51)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Well, it sounds like you're making a choice, whereas before you had boundaries, it was a compulsion. Like, I have to over give to be worthy.

Katie Wrigley (13:13)
Yes. Yep.

⁓ yeah. was, ooh, that was like almost verbatim. The pattern that was running is like I wasn't enough unless I was helping someone else. the other thing is some of the resistance I used to tell myself, like even in the business sense, is I'm not going to be as helpful.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (13:18)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Katie Wrigley (13:34)
if I have boundaries and for people who are really heart led, who really are motivated and driven by enhancing the lives of others, like that can be a big hurdle to creating those boundaries. And I'm curious, like, what would you say for the person that's thinking that of like, if I create these boundaries, I'm not going to be able to help as many people as I want to help.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (13:44)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Hmm. So yeah, I disagree entirely based on my experience, but before I had healthy boundaries, I would not have disagreed. I mean, I would have agreed that they were right. And I think so there's a concept discipline equals freedom. And if you think about when people are raising children, I think most people understand children thrive in structure. They need to have some level of predictability. Basically, they need to know the adults around me are people I can depend on.

Katie Wrigley (14:15)
Mm-hmm.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (14:22)
and that make me feel safe. And so it's like you don't put them in a cage, but you give them some limits and then you let them have freedom within those limits because they feel safe. And so what I've learned is for me, discipline equals freedom. I'm going to use, since we alluded to time boundaries, I'm going to use those for example. I used to be highly unstructured.

Katie Wrigley (14:23)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (14:44)
And I just lived by whatever. The only clue I ever had before I had boundaries, that structure that I thrive in structure, was when I would go on vacation, at the end of my vacation, I would be looking forward to getting back to work, but it wasn't getting back to work. It was the structure of the Monday through Friday life where I have to be somewhere every day at these times.

And I look back now, I'm like, that was the indicator that it was structure that I craved. And so some of like, I work for myself now. So I structure my time in multiple ways. So I block time on my calendar. I have, I write my newsletter at this time. I have what I call my elder council, which is where I tap into my future wiser self and think about like, what do I need to do this week?

Katie Wrigley (15:31)
night.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (15:35)
I have yoga time at noon on Mondays with my sweetheart. I have a block of time noon every day of the week for lunch, which I didn't used to do. I used to just cram it in there and I'm in recovery from compulsive overeating. I have a food plan. My food is very structured and yet I wasn't scheduling time for lunch. I was just fitting it in.

⁓ I have time when I work on my podcast, when I pitch for speaking gigs, when I pitch for podcasts, all this kind of stuff, because I need to move multiple things in my business forward on a regular basis. And I mostly stick to it. Sometimes I don't, but it means that when I'm working on my newsletter, I'm a former

I'm a recovering multitasker. So what used to happen, Katie, is that I would think of something and I would go off and I'd go down 15 different rabbit holes. And when I worked at Yale, I had a dinger on every time an email came in and I was running programs sometimes in up to 25 schools at a time. So I had a lot of people communicating with me and I got a reputation of being very responsive, which yay for them.

Katie Wrigley (16:25)
Mm-hmm.

the

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (16:41)
But it

was hard for me to follow through on anything of mine, especially if it was large, because I was constantly being interrupted and bringing my attention elsewhere. So when I started doing the time blocking, I married it with the Pomodoro technique, which is where you work in a 25 minute segment and take a five minute break. And when I first started doing that, I was, I was afraid, I'm going to forget this thing that pops in my mind. So when I started doing it, I would write down whatever popped in my mind.

Katie Wrigley (16:55)
I love the Commodore.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (17:09)
so that I could come back to it. And eventually I just let those things that popped into my mind go because I had started putting them on my calendar and I was like it either come back or it won't. And I gave myself permission in this 25 minute block of time I get to focus on one thing which means I get into flow which is the best state from which to create. And 25 minutes is a long enough period of time that you can actually get into flow.

And then when it came to the five minute breaks, I was like, oh, I don't want to take a break because I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to get back into flow. Not true because your body needs a break and your brain needs a break. And then speaking of your body needing a break, I heard a fitness instructor say one time sitting is the new smoking. So get off your ass. I know multiple times a day. So when my timer goes off at minimum, I go up and down the stairs once I usually

Katie Wrigley (17:55)
you

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (18:02)
Like I don't always take the full five minutes but I also sometimes don't keep it to five minutes. But the things that I used to get sucked into in the past like you know doing chores I have a ringer go off be like okay chore time is done come back now from your five minute break and it's really changed me. I think that I don't have ADD or ADHD but I do think that I because of the multitasking I had attention problems.

And I don't anymore. I can concentrate. And when I come back to things, my mind and body are fresh and it's easy for me to dive right back into them. So, you know, those, those are examples of how I have used, and there's more, I have way more time boundaries, you know, like actually another one that's been one of the best interventions I have ever done in my life, which is turn the ringer off on my phone. I get to decide.

whether and people almost never call me anymore. They know to text me, right? I get to decide you're not bothering me when you send me a text message. That's what I used to think. They keep interrupting me. I was interrupting me by leaving the damn ringer on. And I also only allow maybe a half a dozen apps to give me notifications on my phone. I don't need to know that something happened on the internet. You know, I don't need that. I can go and choose to look at that app when I have the availability. So I've decided.

how I'm going to live my life based on what matters to me. So I'm living on purpose. I'm living in alignment with my values. I'm in integrity with myself. And at this point, I've literally lost why I'm telling you all this. I don't even remember what the prompting question was, so.

Katie Wrigley (19:39)
We're talking about

time boundaries. don't even remember it either. I'm just totally. Yeah, no, my wringer is never on, like literally never. And the only people that can get through it are my parents, because if they have an emergency, I have consciously prioritize them. I'm out. Whatever is going on, they need me. I'm gone. there there's and I've let clients know like, hey, I'm actually in a place where my parents need a little bit more support. I'm going to do my best to stick to the schedule.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (19:42)
Yeah, okay good. I don't feel so bad.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Katie Wrigley (20:08)
but there is a chance that I may have to reschedule something or something could come up. I'm just, and

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (20:08)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Katie Wrigley (20:15)
that's me being an integrity, not trying to hide it like, hey, like they are my priority and my mom has advanced dementia. And so we don't know what's gonna be happening. Like yesterday was a fantastic day. Don't know how today is, but there's no emergency on there. But that was my thinking around the votes like, and I...

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (20:17)
Mm-hmm. ⁓

Mm-hmm. Right, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Katie Wrigley (20:35)
tell clients like text me anytime. I have my phone and do not disturb all the time. Yeah. Yep.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (20:37)
Yeah. See, right. I have boundaries. You don't need to worry about it. You're not bothering me. This is a service that I offer specifically

to my clients because I want to be there for you. Right? Yeah.

Katie Wrigley (20:47)
Yes, yes,

and I even tell them like, is up to me to hold the boundary. Like you literally cannot come at me too much. I have this down. you come out and it takes a little while, but then once the floodgates open, it's like, yes, come on, give me more, give me more. This is good, this is good. What else, what else? And again, you've got more to give with. And thank you for going into the reminding me of the Pomodoro and.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (20:52)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes, yep, yes, same.

Yes, yep, yep, yep, yeah, yes, same.

Mm.

Katie Wrigley (21:12)
I've some work

to do with my time boundaries. I'm still kind of eating around, but I'm also really excited about stuff I'm doing right now. But that rest is so important. And I want to ask one last question before we wrap this three or four part, however many parts, this has been such an incredible conversation. I was excited to get into it. Now that I'm into it, I'm loving it even more. But you touched on this a little bit, but I just want to really directly address it because rest doesn't feel safe.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (21:14)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Good.

Okay.

Yeah, good.

Katie Wrigley (21:39)
for a lot of people. I even knowing that rest is important, that's what my nervous system will still result where you will go back to. And I felt so stuck on this problem that I was working through last week and I forced myself. Like that is the only word I can use. It's like, right, like I am not allowed to touch anything work related this weekend at all until I work through this issue.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (21:39)
No, no, no, no. No, no, no, No, no, no, no. ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Katie Wrigley (22:05)
And like, maybe not.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (22:05)
Yeah.

Katie Wrigley (22:07)
And then I did decide, I'm like, actually, it makes a lot more sense. I'm going to have a more successful week. If I take a half an hour to do this thing Sunday evening, but again, it was conscious and I had already made that shift, but that shift came in the rest with intentional silence, intentional movement, out in nature, hiking in like instead of just walking my dog on pavement, taking her into the woods. Like I've got no excuse. Like the trail's right there. I literally walk by a regular walk.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (22:16)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Katie Wrigley (22:34)
everything shifted in that rest. But what is the real reason that rest feels unsafe?

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (22:35)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

So this is the exact journey that I've been on the last couple of years, that even though I have reduced massively my overgiving patterns, I've had this very strong, like, productivity drive and compulsion. Like, for me, feeling a sense of accomplishment is one of the most satisfying feelings.

Katie Wrigley (22:59)
Yes!

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (23:00)
And I really

internalized, like, I need to produce to be worthy. And so I think for me personally, the reason that rest feels unsafe is thoughts and feelings come up that activate my nervous system when I'm at rest and I don't want to fucking deal with them. and it's also this deeply internalized belief I need to produce to be worthy. I, so until...

Katie Wrigley (23:17)
Yeah.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (23:27)
The end of 2023, I would coach people seven days a week. I coached on weekends at the end of 2023. I was like, no more coaching on weekends. I for years did recorded my podcast on Sunday afternoons, which sometimes turned into 1130 at night on Sunday nights. And finally, I don't, I think it was 2024. Maybe it was 2025. I was, kept telling one of my coaches, I'm going to pull the podcast recording off of the weekend and put it into the week. And she was like, what are you waiting for?

So now I record the podcast during the week. So weekends are actually weekends where I don't and I make sure that I do something with a friend in person at least once every single weekend, usually more than once. And I put the lunches on my calendar. I literally laid down and watched the Hallmark channel often during my lunch because

I love it and it's happy. There's always going to be a kiss. There's always going to be a happy ending. Even though people break up all the time, nobody's key in anybody's car or stalking people and stuff like that. So I've, I've slowly but surely taught my nervous system that it's safe to be at rest. And then

Katie Wrigley (24:29)
you

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (24:37)
The other thing that like I have a lot of deeply entrenched scarcity mentality. And I think now it's it was scarcity about a lot of things, but now it's really just about money. And I have done a lot of processing with JATTPT in the last couple of months. And one of the most important interventions that I learned when the thoughts come up, because for me, I have boundaries around my thinking. I call them boundaries of self-containment.

Katie Wrigley (25:02)
Mm-hmm.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (25:06)
their internal boundaries. And so as soon as I realized that the thoughts are going, I get to stop them. So Chachi BT said that, so I take my elder future self tells me this is your mind trying to prevent future harm. It is not a prediction of the future. You are safe right now. Look around you. And this is where I got the naming things.

Katie Wrigley (25:27)
Yeah.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (25:33)
touching things, I am literally safe right now in this moment, that I've been through things like this before, and it's never been worried that's gotten me through it. It's been presence, being in the present moment. When I first started saying that, which was only a few weeks ago, I said it, I mean, maybe 60 times a day. And now it might be once or twice a week, once or twice, because I've really internalized it. So I'd like for me,

Katie Wrigley (25:56)
Nice.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (26:00)
The reason rest feels unsafe is because of what comes up when we rest. It could be thoughts, I should be doing something else. It could be thoughts, catastrophes are gonna happen. It could be feelings that we're not used to. Like I spent my life numbing, sucking my thumb, smoking cigarettes, smoking weed, drinking booze, being fixated on other people. And it wasn't until I was actually, stopped.

drinking abusively in my early 40s, though I did drink a tiny little bit. I didn't really get drunk after that, but I continued to smoke weed even into my recovery. So I think 2019. So it's literally been not even seven years since this 63 year old body stopped doing something to numb. So I would say two and a half, three years ago was when I started having these a few episodes where I literally had to lay myself on the floor and splay myself out.

as a way of, I guess, surrendering to the universe. Like whatever's happening, just let it happen. And I would have these feelings in a way that I never had before. Sometimes to the point of dry heaving. And I was like, what the fuck is this? And I think it was that I didn't have like, I have like this buildup of feelings I've been suppressing my entire life. And the other shocking thing, Katie, is we're talking feelings going through me in approximately seven to 15 seconds.

Katie Wrigley (27:13)
No, yeah.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (27:21)
I'm not talking hours of feelings. I'm like, this is what I've been resisting my entire life. No, don't get me wrong. It sucked, but it only sucked for that long. Right. And so my I've been bracing myself to avoid these feelings and that years of bracing and avoiding the feelings has made things so much worse. And now that I mean, I think that happened once this year, you know, and we're in May already. And I just it's like

Katie Wrigley (27:40)
Yes.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (27:48)
I numbed for so long that I've been afraid of the feeling. So I think it's really fear, fear of the thoughts, fear of the feelings, fear of being inadequate that makes rest so threatening.

Katie Wrigley (28:00)
Yep. I couldn't agree more. And would you say that the fear of and the resistance to what was under there was way worse than actually going through and allowing yourself to do it? Yeah.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (28:09)
Hell yes, absolutely.

False evidence appearing real.

Katie Wrigley (28:14)
yes, yes. Awesome. This has been such an incredible conversation. Barb, where can people find you so that they can reach out, connect with you? If anything that Barb has said has resonated with you, I encourage you to reach out. We'll make sure all the links that she's about to mention are in the show notes.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (28:15)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sure. So since you're already listening to a podcast, you can hop on over to mine. It's called fragmented to whole life lessons from 12 step recovery. the only place I really hang out on social media now is on LinkedIn. do have content from the past on Facebook and Instagram, but LinkedIn is where I'm current. I'm at Barb Nangle. And then my website is higher power CC.com. That stands for higher power coaching and consulting. have tons of

free content, have low cost, moderate cost and high cost, deep intense work offers. I have stuff on romantic boundaries, workplace boundaries, family boundaries, personal boundaries, you name it, internal boundaries, all that kind of stuff. And actually what I'm really excited about is I am in the middle of recording a course on internal safety.

and it's called Boundaries That Hold. It's not ready just yet, but it will be soon, so come back.

Katie Wrigley (29:22)
⁓ love that. Thank you so much. And you're going to be my new referral source when I see someone that needs help with boundaries. I'm going to send you over to Barb Nagle. She is the boundaries boss. Check her out. So thank you so much. Is there any last thought you want to leave the listener with before we wrap, Barb?

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (29:28)
goody. Excellent. Excellent.

Yeah,

it's not selfish to take care of yourself. It's self-preservation. It's required.

Katie Wrigley (29:47)
Yes, thank you for reiterating that. And thank you so much for your time today. ⁓ yes, this has been awesome. And thank you to the listener out there for being with us through this episode. This is actually the longest one this season. I love it. And as you've noticed, it's been divided into bite-sized pieces so that you can incorporate this into your life. So thank you for being with Barb and I today. And until next episode, please be well.

Barb Nangle, Boundaries Coach (29:50)
Yeah. Yes, thank you.

Excellent.