How Dads can Transform Trauma into Resilience with Drew Soleyn

Summary
In this episode of the Catapult Effect podcast, host Katie Wrigley speaks with Drew Soleyn, a father who has transformed his traumatic childhood experiences into a mission to support other dads. Drew shares his journey from being abducted by his father at a young age to navigating the complexities of divorce and custody battles. 

He emphasizes the importance of being present for children, the need for emotional healing, and introduces his 'Resilient Dad Formula' which focuses on reflection, reframing, and reinvesting in relationships. The conversation highlights the unique challenges fathers face and the vital role they play in their children's lives.

Takeaways

• Healing from trauma is essential for effective parenting.
• Presence is more important than perfection in parenting.
• Fathers often face systemic barriers in custody battles.
• The Resilient Dad Formula includes reflection, reframing, and reinvesting.
• Every father has unique strengths that contribute to their child's well-being.

Connect with Drew

Website

Fatherhood Coaching Program

Free E-Course for Dads

Youtube 

Resources

• Website
• Learn more about Cognomovement
• Try Cognomovement for yourself!
• Book a call with Katie

Credit: Tom Giovingo, Intro & Outro, Random Voice Guy, Professional ‘Cat‘ Herder

Mixed & Managed: JohnRavenscraft.com

Disclaimer: Katie is not a medical professional and she is not qualified to diagnose any conditions. The advice and information she gives is based on her own experience and research. It does not take the place of medical advice. Always consult a medical professional first before you try anything new.

Transcript

Katie Wrigley (00:00.632)
Welcome back to the Catapult Effect podcast. I am your host, Katie Wrigley. I have another really cool guest with me today. I feel so lucky I've had the coolest people reach out to be on this show and it is my honor to get to introduce them. This show today is for all of you dads out there who trying to figure out how you can balance healing from negative events and trauma in your past and balancing that with your duties and your joy of being a dad. So if that is you, stick with us. That is coming right up.

Thank you again for joining me today. I have with me Drew Soleyn. He is someone who truly understands the hidden struggles that dads face. Drew was abducted by his father at age three and separated from his mom for four years. And that was just the beginning. From infertility to miscarriage to divorce, false accusations, blended family life, Drew has lived through it all. But instead of letting those challenges define him, he used them to become stronger, more present dad,
and now helps others do the same. He is a founder of Connected Dads and the director for Dad Central, Canada's go-to fatherhood resources, and has helped over 600,000 dads through real, practical tools. Drew, thank you so much for joining me today.

Drew Soleyn (01:17.612)
Well, thank you so much, Katie, for having me. It's a real honor just to be here and of course, to talk about something I'm really passionate about.

Katie Wrigley (01:25.536)
And thank you. So I'm wondering how much of your story you want to go into as far as how being abducted has really started to shift and you've taken that pain and you've turned it into purpose. I'd love to have you dive in a little bit of how you made that switch from your own experience to be able to help people.

Drew Soleyn (01:45.548)
Yeah, well, thanks, Kitty. I think it's a relevant place to start for sure. You know, being three years old and you know, you don't know anything when you're three and just having this experience really shaped my life. So, you know, I was blessed that my mom was an amazing mom who fought really hard to actually get the laws changed in the state of Missouri, which is where my dad was at the time living. So prior to that, we

We lived in New York city. We lived in Jamaica and then in St. Louis, Missouri. And that's where she was blessed with the help of a woman by the name of Bonnie Miller and a police constable. They've lobbied and were able to get the laws changed where the state come in and actually get me because my father didn't have rightful custody of me at the time. So in terms of how it shaped, you know, that experience was pretty traumatic. I remember being taken out of my dad's house by police.

social worker and then placed in a foster home. First night, then moved to another foster home the next night. And then the next day, just being at this courthouse. And eventually I was brought into a room and reintroduced to my mother, which is a woman who I vaguely recognized, but I just didn't know her at that stage. the way it shaped, I think, the rest of my life and my fatherhood is that I just felt like I never had the normal childhood.

I looked around and I saw families, I saw moms and dads and it's like I didn't have that. So I always felt like I just didn't fit in from that perspective. And then of course, fast forward as I grew, I was blessed to have a stepdad came into my life when I was 10. He's an amazing influence still in my life now. And he, along with coaches and other male role models, have really become the model that I had to plan and become a father myself. so,

I know that it really came up a lot for me as I was about to become a father myself and that was in 2013. And it was just so clear for me that I want to make sure that my children never have an experience like I had. I wanted to make sure that they felt safe, that they felt loved and that they were always going to know that their father was available for them to protect them, to keep them safe and provide them what they need. so,

Drew Soleyn (04:11.234)
that's kind of how it's really shaped it. And I would say what I would say is just that that trauma while it was challenging, it actually became more of a purpose for me in that because I experienced it, I was very focused on having a different outcome for both my family and for my children. And I just wanted people to know that there's definitely hope there.

Katie Wrigley (04:34.412)
And that's amazing that you've been able to make that transition because it would be so easy for someone who's gone through the depths of trauma that you did, like getting first separated from your mom when you're too young to understand, and then living with just your father for four years, and then not getting transitioned immediately back into the family. And you were age seven then when you were returned to your mom.

Yeah, like we don't have the capacity to understand at those ages what's going on. And so those are some of the most influential years that really sculpt behavior into adulthood. So I just want to give you major credit for you taking that experience in your most formative years and turning it into what you're doing now to help hundreds of thousands of dads through the tools that you've developed that have helped you as well. So thank you for doing that.

Drew Soleyn (05:24.078)
Well, thank you very much for that. I appreciate it.

Katie Wrigley (05:27.274)
Out of curiosity, do you remember much about your dad taking you or more about when you were taken from him?

Drew Soleyn (05:36.046)
I remember being on a plane when I was three years old and looking up and my dad saying, we're going to Jamaica or something like that. That's my only memory that I have from that time. Most of the other memories really begin around four or five.

Katie Wrigley (05:55.052)
Yeah, and that's, I was just curious because trauma can really impact our memory, as I'm sure you know, and was just sometimes and with, you know, other people I know that have actually had a, the one person that I worked with that's had a very similar experience. It was the, when the parent was caught and the police had showed up, that was the more traumatic piece. And it sounds like that was for you as well, because you didn't know that, you know.

mom wasn't going to be there for a while and your dad probably had a lot of different answers to give you as to where she may have been.

Drew Soleyn (06:29.518)
Yeah. And I could add a layer of this. When I was growing up with my father in the home, was trauma in the home as well. So it was layered upon layered upon layered through my first formative years, certainly all the way from birth to seven.

Katie Wrigley (06:49.004)
And that makes sense, because if someone is of the state of mind that they think that they could kidnap their child from the other parent, that person doesn't tend to be rooted in a strong ideal base or strong in integrity. So it makes sense that there would be more layers of trauma that were endured from someone who's going through whatever he was going through that made him think that this was the appropriate action to take.

So I'm just, I'm amazed by everything you've done with us. so you talk about divorce and how you actually took divorce to actually not disconnect. So are you talking about your own divorce or through divorce through your parents or both?

Drew Soleyn (07:32.974)
So I'm speaking more specifically about my divorce and that experience of, typically if you look at many of the statistics, there's a lack of father involvement in general, but when you look at when there's a relationship breakdown, that's typically when father involvement is significantly impacted, whether it's through a nature of the relationship breakdown and just the difficulty of working as co-parents.

or whether it's from the legal standpoint or other, some traditional or systemic barriers that exist that limit or father's lack of involvement and engagement and ability to actually fulfill the role of fatherhood. see a lot of it. And so it's a, think it's a crucial period of time. Unfortunately, it's a, it's an experience that my vision was, I was, of course, was never to enter it. No one goes into marriage thinking that, but what I've learned

At least going through mine is just the importance of healing and the importance of focusing on the children's needs above all else and being able to do what you need to do as a parent, as a father in particular, to stay as actively and supportively involved in your child's life because of what it means for them. Obviously my own lived experience speaks to that, not having my father after the age of seven, but certainly now on the flip side, being a father.

had to go through that and being able to support children is really crucial. absolutely.

Katie Wrigley (09:02.478)
And how were you able to really anchor in to that idea of keeping your, I'm sure, but I can already tell from the type of person you are and the degree, the strength of character that you have that you as a dad, like your kids are number one, how were you able to anchor into that thought, going through the stress of divorce, figuring out custody, figuring out all these other things and stay anchored in my kids matter most and continue to prioritize them?

Drew Soleyn (09:32.844)
it's a good question. I didn't see any other way. for me, it wasn't a question of if or when it was, it was just, it's going to happen. and there were many barriers. you know, part of my story is that I was actually blindsided. and then I was, there was a deliberate plan put in place by my ex to actually position me as the bad person and actually almost, it was shocking in that.

Katie Wrigley (09:36.942)
and

Drew Soleyn (10:02.094)
I was accused of abusing my children and I was essentially, they were pulled essentially out of my home and I had very limited over the first three months, I saw them about 5 % of the time, only under supervision of my ex-wife and sometimes her father. And there was no, there's no like validity for it, but just because of the processes that they enacted, they got child welfare involved. So,

Katie Wrigley (10:14.52)
No

Drew Soleyn (10:30.382)
to say it was like a shock and awe campaign is at least what it felt like from my perspective. And so the challenge for me was how do I care for myself? How do I manage the reality of what life is, even though it was literally turned upside down overnight? And then how do I, because I'd been through such trauma as a child, I knew the trauma that my children are experiencing because they were confused. They had no idea what was going on. And as much as I tried to work with my ex-wife to say,

we have to talk with our children. Like when this first happened, we have to let them know and come together and communicate to them. And it was essentially pulled out from under me and communicated to them without me being present. And I don't know what was communicated. So it's tremendously challenging, but back to the, there was no other way because for me, my focus, from the before being a father, and then of course, as my children were growing and we had three children at the time, my daughters, twin daughters were,

Eight, I just turned eight and my son was five, four, sorry, five at the time. So they, they were going through quite a bit and my focus was simply how do I support them and meeting their needs? And so in those 5 % of time, it was essentially just connect. It was connect with my children, no matter what you can do, however you can, even if it's undress. And for me, what that meant was I completely ignored.

my ex-wife and whoever was there, my focus was solely engaging with them and helping them feel loved, seen, heard, and valued by me in that process. so, I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but for me, there, there was no alternative and I was going to do whatever I needed to, for them to connect and engage. And then of course, take care of all the other pieces that were layered on top of this around, know, the child welfare, around having lawyers, around my work situation, around

You're all of it.

Katie Wrigley (12:29.858)
Wow. How long did it take to prove that you actually hadn't abused them?

Drew Soleyn (12:35.822)
It's taken three and a half years to finally get through the family court and legal system the children to be with me 50-50 and so up until that point it was an ongoing battle. It costs a lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of energy.

As I said, there was no, there was no alternative for me.

Katie Wrigley (13:02.594)
And you you doing that is, that gives your kids so much security to anchor into. Like what I've seen and know from trauma and resilience, when children have at least one stable parent and with you continuing to fight for them, you know, regardless of whatever your ex-wife is doing, how good of a mom she is, we'll leave that off to the side, but what you're doing to fight for those kids, you're showing them.

over and over again how much they mean to you, how much they matter. And that piece helps create so much resilience within a person to have that safe space, to have that human that loves them, that is there for them no matter what. That gets so much to help build their resilience later on in adulthood. So thank you on behalf of kids everywhere for stepping up for your kids like that.

Drew Soleyn (13:56.492)
thank you. And I just want to say briefly that I don't think that I'm the rarity. I know there are many, many fathers who I've interacted with and who we've supported and served who their heart, their desire, their passion for the children is the same. The level of barriers and the layers of complication that they may have had to go through, mine may pale in comparison to many of those fathers. And some of those fathers for me, while I was going through it, I quickly said,

I don't know how you could ever make it through this situation without support. And I also see how so many fathers give up because it is a tremendously excruciating journey simply to try and get what you know your children need, which is access to them and the opportunity to develop and continue on with the relationship that hopefully you've built with them. So now don't get me wrong on the flip side, we know that there are situations where

Katie Wrigley (14:30.775)
Yeah.

Drew Soleyn (14:49.454)
you know, it is important that children are, um, you know, with the healthiest parent that they can, can be. And, and so the goal here and the goal for me after the situation was to heal myself as best as I could. that when I engage with my children, it was from a place of wholeness. It was a place of supporting them and their needs and not perpetuating some of the things that I'd experienced or that I'd experienced even in the relationship with their mother.

And so that for me is, it's what's most important is how do we heal? So I do want to mention that there are fathers who are just like me and who want to serve and want to engage and want to connect. And that's who we really aim to support and serve as well. Those are the fathers who are out there wanting to have the same access and the same relationship with their children.

Katie Wrigley (15:35.19)
And I love that. Thank you for making that distinction. I've been really lucky. I have an amazing dad and my parents are still married, so I haven't had to go through the divorce. But I know firsthand how deep a father's love goes. And I've gotten had been blessed with a wonderful dad for the 50 years that I've been here and hope to continue to be blessed for years to come. You know, and I think you also hit the nail on the head is that some men, some dads, they don't they don't know how to fight or

or what they can do because they're beginning, they're given a certain set of options, none of them they want. And like you said, it's very expensive, it's grueling, it's exhausting. I can only imagine.

how hard of a process that is and how isolating it can be for the father who's going through these custody battles, trying to show that, yes, I am a healthy parent. And I'm guessing Canada may be similar, that a lot of states in the United States really favor the mother. And so the father, a very attentive, interactive father like you has to fight even harder to show that you are a participatory parent. You are involved.

You are active in your kids' lives and nothing is going to take that away from you no matter how long it takes.

Drew Soleyn (16:52.716)
Yeah. Thank you for that, Katie. It is unfortunate that our system in Canada is similar to what you mentioned in the U S I believe I heard it said that, you know, family law is the only branch of the legal system where you're guilty until proven innocent everywhere else. You're innocent until proven guilty. And so, it's unfortunate that the system and those who are in the system understand how some of those, work. But the reality is, that those, the people who are in the system, especially from the legal profession,

they're not child development experts. They don't understand the research behind child development outcomes and the importance of an actively engaged father when it comes to supporting the best outcome for children. Now you have a lot of fathers who are active, who are involved, who are responsible, but there's a playbook that can be leveraged that indicates that maybe you're not. And so that's the, that's the real challenge, I believe. And of course the goal is

for me as I talk about is the healthiness of the individuals. And you see healthy outcomes for children who go through divorce when the two adults in the divorce handle it as mature adults and focusing on the needs of the children as opposed to the alternative. And unfortunately that's, that's the opposite is too common. And that's where children really suffer the most.

Katie Wrigley (18:11.852)
Yeah, unfortunately, I have to agree with you there. So you've talked a lot about being present. And a lot of times when someone is in the situation that you are in, we're striving for perfection. We're trying to get the ideal situation. And a lot of times that's going to evade us. So how can someone focus on being present over having a perfect situation?

Drew Soleyn (18:37.902)
That's one of the greatest challenges I experienced through my three, three and a half year journey. Typically because there's the emotional reactivity. So an example, I saw a pattern very early on. I would often get a communication from a lawyer or some other entity on the Friday just before my children would come. And so, you you are bombarded by a lot of these different situations that come up and they,

you get an emotional hijack, right? And so the challenge is to be able to manage and regulate ourselves. In order to maintain presence, that's the only way you can do it. And so I adapted a variety of different strategies. One was boundaries. Boundaries are crucial. When or how would I even open up or even entertain any of these things that came through? Very clearly understood that I can't engage or connect with any of these things that I know are going to create a spike. Second, I learned that, okay, I need to recognize what's going on in myself. Wow.

I'm really amped up about this and so I've got to find a way. Simple walks, taking care of myself, journaling, calling a friend, some of these simple things, but very important and powerful, helped me regulate and manage my own emotional state, knowing when I needed to engage and connect with my children. Was it always easy? No. Were there times where I failed at it? Absolutely. But the reality is the more that I consistently practiced the boundaries, the self care,

the regulating my own emotions and processing them when I had time and space to do it away from my children, the better, and, and, better I was examples of, you know, when I would get a message from, you know, particularly the lawyer, and I would read it, sometimes it'd be like two or three days before I had actually calmed myself down enough to actually be able to go through it. Whereas now I'm at the stage where dealing with my ex, I'll get a message and it's kind of similar tone, similar.

like within minutes I've moved on. So it's a learned behavior practice of these, I think, simple disciplines to be able to manage your own emotional state, regulate your thoughts, regulate your actual physical being, and then be able to maintain actual engagement with those who are right in front of you at the moment. That for me was how I was able to create the presence that was important in building the connection with my children.

Katie Wrigley (21:03.916)
And that's amazing. And your kids are going to benefit so much from you being able to work through that. And again, I can only imagine the level of emotions that you had with a three and a half year fight for your kids. And congratulations on getting to the point of 50-50 custody and may it continue for you down that road.

Drew Soleyn (21:24.398)
Yeah, thank you. I think Raleigh is it's an ongoing life skill and an ongoing journey. mean, I think this is a skill that I'm hoping my children will pick up and learn and we're actually intentionally teaching our children through this. But if I had learned it sooner, and I think I actually had some of those skills, the challenges that I was coming through a very...

toxic, unhealthy and pretty destructive circumstance that really heightened some of these things. But yeah, skills so important.

Katie Wrigley (21:57.814)
Yeah, absolutely. And if it's not too personal, have you remarried since the court case and everything in the past?

Drew Soleyn (22:06.478)
I've been blessed about a year after I met someone new through a mutual friend and we instantly connected and I've kind of been together ever since. So yeah, we have our new blended family dynamic. My partner and I have a two-year-old, so she had a daughter before, so our family is a 14-year-old.

My two twins my son who's nine now and then our little baby who's two years old Thank you

Katie Wrigley (22:40.654)
Congratulations. Sounds like a happy ending before it's an ending. Happy transition. That's a better way to fit it.

Drew Soleyn (22:46.446)
Yeah. I think a blessed transition. and you know, I think I was listening to one of your previous shows and one of the guests was talking, really about this idea of healing. and I would say, you know, healing has really come through the relationship. So I'd obviously been doing a ton of work on my own because my goal after the situation erupted was

to heal myself and be as whole as I can, obviously for my children and for an eventual partner that I knew would come at some point. No idea when, no timelines, nothing like that. was just, I need to be as healthy and whole as possible. And I think the ability of relationship to really accelerate that healing process or deepen the healing process is something that I think is what we've found through this process, both for myself and for Kristin.

Katie Wrigley (23:36.992)
And that's beautiful. And it really speaks to your current partner's emotional intelligence, because there is a lot of healing that can take place in relationship. But it takes strong people who are willing and trusting enough to have someone hold the mirror and say, hey, here's some things that may be available for you to heal now. And these are the ways they're impacting me. And that takes a whole other level of emotional intelligence and maturity to be able to communicate that, especially after what you were going through.

Drew Soleyn (24:08.014)
It's a journey, that's for sure. It takes work.

Katie Wrigley (24:10.684)
Yeah, absolutely. So you have come up with something that you call the resilient dad formula. Can you talk a little bit about that,

Drew Soleyn (24:20.206)
Yeah, absolutely. for me, you know, fathers experience significant challenges, just like any parent would I'd say, but fathers, um, in particular, I some unique ones. And so, uh, the resilient dad firm is really what's come out of me going through my own challenges, my own struggles and leveraging my own experiences. Plus as a coach, I'm an ICF certified coach, I'm a Maxwell leadership coach, really helping people.

I've been reflecting and thinking about what helps a father be able to capitalize on the strength that they have internally to be able to be as resilient as possible through life. so I would say the habits of reflection are absolutely crucial. And so there's the three parts. So you're reflecting, then you're reframing, and then you're reinvesting.

And so you're reflecting on what your past experience is. You're reframing it from a, not from a place of pity, sorrow, victimhood, and negativity, but you're reframing it in terms of what can I learn from this? Similar to this idea of a growth mindset. What can I learn? How can I grow from this? What's the lesson here? How do I apply something to move forward from this? And then you're reinvesting. Once you've identified that core piece, you're invest in more,

in yourself and in the relationships that are close to you. And so if we take my personal story, you know, I reflected very early on in terms of, what was I doing that was helping me connect with my children prior to, and I got pretty clear, right? Joy, fun, laughter.

play. Those are the things that drove my connection. And so that's what I, and then I saw, okay, great. Now I still have the capacity to do that. Even though there's limitations in terms of my time with them is nowhere near what it should be or what I want or what they need. I can still reframe as when I do have those opportunities, I have that opportunity to connect with them and I know it. And so I did, that's what I saw. And then I reinvest in terms of every opportunity I have, I'm going to connect. And so I would send them,

Drew Soleyn (26:31.33)
video messages every single day. sometimes multiple times a day, not, you know, not unreasonable, like once or twice. and then every opportunity I could, I would be where they were. So if they had activities or the events, I would be there and they would see my face. They would connect with me. They would know. So every opportunity I just reinvested in how do I build that connection? So that for me is the resilient dad roadmap is, you know, reflect,

reframe and then reinvest.

Katie Wrigley (27:02.356)
I love that. That's beautiful and easy to remember to those three Rs there. So if you could go back to the Drew you were in 2013 before you became a father, knowing the journey that you were about to embark on for the last next 12 years, is there one thing you would want to say to that version of Drew that helps support him on this journey?

Drew Soleyn (27:14.2)
Yeah.

Drew Soleyn (27:26.54)
Yeah, I've thought about this many times and shared a couple different variations, but I think the number one piece of advice I would give to true is heal yourself.

Find out, you know, what, what that pain or what that past experiences may, maybe you haven't done with it yet, but I would say work on yourself. you know, become more emotionally aware, become a clear on, you know, your triggers become more, whole as best as you can. That would be my number one piece of advice for myself back in 2013.

Katie Wrigley (28:05.262)
That's absolutely beautiful. And before we wrap, is there something that you would want to say to a dad who's listening who may be in the middle of a custody battle or maybe the custody battle is behind him and he's wishing that he could do something different and be more present in his kid's life? Is there something that you can say to that listener?

Drew Soleyn (28:28.162)
Yeah. you know, you're listening and that's you, I just want you to know, number one, you are so important. You are so important in the life of your child, your presence, your relationship means so much when it comes to their life. and the other thing is that you have tremendous value. You as a father have unique strengths. You have unique capabilities that enable you to be something very important in the life of your child. So you've got value. You're important.

And the third thing is they really do need you. So however you can find ways to be involved with your children, then I would encourage you to do it. And yes, there are maybe limitations, there may be barriers, but find one way that you can relate to connect or be available to your child and invest in it because it really does matter and makes a huge difference. The reams and reams of research that we have at dad central as well as that have been put out there.

really speak to just the importance, uniqueness and value of the role of a father in the life of a child. So you matter.

Katie Wrigley (29:34.126)
That's beautiful advice. Thank you. I want to transition to where can people find you? I would love to hear more about this group coaching program that you have going to help all those dads out there.

Drew Soleyn (29:46.018)
Yeah, thanks so much Katie for that opportunity. So you can find most of our work at dadcentral.ca. That's where and of course me, I can be reached at drew at dadcentral.ca. The coaching program, it's something that I've done in over the last few years. I call it developing the father within you. It's built off of John Maxwell's leadership curriculum. And so as a Maxwell leadership coach, I, you know, he's essentially a mentor of mine.

and so I glean from his, fatherly advice will say, but from a leadership lens and I help fathers, become the leaders that they want to be, both of themselves, within their family, but then ultimately in wherever they have influence. And so, we w it's developing a father within you. it's a, it's group-based, and it really goes through the curriculum of John Maxwell's developing the leader within you with the frame of fatherhood as the focus. So.

That's a program that's launching as we're coming up to Father's Day.

Katie Wrigley (30:50.198)
Awesome, very cool. So we'll make sure that we have those links and notes in the show notes so that people can reach out, connect to you. Do you have a specific launch day for that, Drew, that we can put out there, or is it just around the Father's Day timeline coming up next month?

Drew Soleyn (31:05.282)
Yeah. So we've got some exciting things happening with our brand partner Dovemen plus care, and that's going to be happening just before Father's Day. So that's going to happen. And then shortly after Father's Day, developing the father within you will most likely get started.

Katie Wrigley (31:19.018)
Wonderful. Thank you for creating those resources for all the dads out there that need this help to connect with their kids and be present, be loving, be important in their kids' lives. Thank you.

Drew Soleyn (31:32.046)
You're welcome and thank you so much, Kitty.

Katie Wrigley (31:34.026)
Is there any last word that you want to leave us with today,

Drew Soleyn (31:38.639)
wow, another last word.

Katie Wrigley (31:40.462)
Sorry, did that to you twice.

Drew Soleyn (31:43.374)
That's okay. You know, for me, I think the role of father, it's fraught with

varying levels of, know, everyone's experience has been different, you know, about the father wound, you know, about the, you know, the deadbeat dads, you know, about the, the representation of fathers as bumbling idiots and those types of things. And unfortunately, some of those caricatures are based on real life. And that's the unfortunate part. But what my experience has shown me is that fathers from all walks of life in every sort of corner,

you know, economically, uh, you know, however you want to say it, we, they all have this innate desire to be involved and connected with their children. Many of them just simply don't know how. Uh, and so, um, I just want to say that fathers, um, fathers really do care, at least from my general experience, a lot of the research, uh, would also validate that. anyways, I'll stop there in terms of, I think fathers, um, if you have the opportunity, dumb, you know, we connect with the father and

and let them know that they matter to you.

Katie Wrigley (32:53.102)
that's beautiful. Absolutely. I'm going to see my dad later today. I'm going to make sure he knows how much he matters to me. Thank you for that. And thank you, listener, for joining us today. I trust that Drew's message is hitting home where you need it the most. And as always, be well until next time. Take care.

Drew Soleyn (32:59.766)
Awesome. Thanks, Katie.