Recovery and Hope with Andrew Levander

Summary
In this episode of the Catapult Effect podcast, host Katie Wrigley interviews Andrew Levander, a licensed marriage and family therapist and master addiction counselor. Andrew shares his personal journey into therapy, the profound impact of childhood trauma, and the connection between trauma and addiction. He discusses the importance of creating safe spaces for individuals to share their experiences, particularly for men who often feel isolated in their struggles. 

The conversation also highlights the mission of Encino Detox, a treatment center that Andrew co-founded, focusing on providing compassionate care for those battling addiction. The episode concludes with a message of hope for those struggling with addiction, emphasizing the importance of taking the next right step towards recovery.

Takeaways

• Childhood trauma can lead to maladaptive coping mechanisms, including addiction.
• Creating a safe space for men to discuss their experiences is crucial.
• Encino Detox focuses on treating the underlying pain behind addiction.
• The connection between trauma and addiction is profound and often overlooked.
• People often engage in addictive behaviors to meet unmet needs.
• The importance of community and shared experiences in recovery cannot be overstated.
• Recovery is a journey that requires support and understanding from others.
• The next right step is often the most important in the recovery process.
• Healing is possible, and there is hope for a better future.

Resources

The Encino Detox Center

More About Andrew

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C., is a California and Nevada Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist who holds National certifications as: Master Addictions Counselor, Certified Chemical Dependency Counselor, Certified Bereavement Counselor, Certified Cognitive Behavioral therapist, Certified Internet Addiction and Web Psychology Specialist and is a Workplace Mediation Specialist. He has over twenty-four years of experience in adolescent, adult and family psychotherapy and fifteen years of national/international teaching in the field and study of addiction, social work, counseling, family systems and social service management. 

Andrew was the recipient of the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health Service Innovations Festival Award; “Enhancing Treatment Quality through Program Innovation”. He was featured on Oprah, The Dr. Phil Show, The John Walsh Talk Show, NBC News, CNN, and a special on E! Entertainment as well as featured in Time Magazine, The Boston Globe, The Los Angeles Times and many other national media outlets.  In 2002 and 2010, a documentary on Andrew’s unique treatment program aired on the Discovery Channel.  

Andrew’s twenty-five years of clinical experience, knowledge and dedication to those in need, the profession of Marriage and Family Therapy, substance use disorders and education have made him a skilled clinician, educator and leader in the field and study of mental health care and social service.

Andrew is currently the Administrator and Chief Clinical Officer at The Encino Detox Center where he continues to be of service to those in need of compassionate specialized care for the treatment of addiction, trauma, and mental health.

Credit: Tom Giovingo, Intro & Outro, Random Voice Guy, Professional ‘Cat‘ Herder

Mixed & Managed: JohnRavenscraft.com

Disclaimer: Katie is not a medical professional and she is not qualified to diagnose any conditions. The advice and information she gives is based on her own experience and research. It does not take the place of medical advice. Always consult a medical professional first before you try anything new.

Transcript

Katie Wrigley (00:00.738)
Welcome back to the Catapult Effect podcast. I am your host, Katie Wrigley, and I have an absolutely incredible guest with me today, Andrew Lavander. Am I saying that right, Andrew? All right, just wanted to make sure. He is a licensed marriage and family therapist as well as a master addiction counselor and is a California, Nevada, and licensed in California and Nevada. He holds

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (00:11.808)
You are.

Katie Wrigley (00:25.6)
national certifications as the addictions counselor, master's addictions counselor, certified chemical dependency counselor, certified bereavement counselor, certified cognitive behavioral therapist. Wow, you have lots of certifications. I'm so impressed. I am actually going to leave a lot of this into the show notes so you guys can check it out themselves because I don't want to eat up the time that we have to talk to this amazing guest with his background, even though I actually had intended to do this.

Suffice it to say, Andrew Lavander is an absolutely incredible human being. He's been featured on Oprah. He's been featured on Dr. Phil, and I am honored that he is spending his time on my podcast today. Welcome to the Catapult Effect podcast, Andrew. I'm so psyched to get to know you better.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (01:02.624)
you

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (01:10.336)
it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Katie Wrigley (01:13.112)
Would you be willing to share a little bit of your story of what got you interested in becoming a marriage and family counselor plus all the other accolades that you have received and the extra learning that you've given yourself, including the master addiction counselor as well?

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (01:28.664)
Sure. I would say by accident is how I had one of those sad stories, childhoods. the truth is after dinner one night, my mother said that she'd like to go shopping. And if I wanted to go with, and we ended up in the parking lot of who would become my first therapist in life changing.

Katie Wrigley (01:32.512)
Yeah.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (01:58.51)
relationship with a guy named Rick Tivers in the North Shore of Chicago. And I remember leaving his office after that first session, having the thought, I was 15, having the thought, what a cool job. This guy just tries to help people. And I hadn't ever considered at 15 that one could have a career in trying to

help other people. And I was in such need of myself that it just felt right. And then I thought, if I make it out of childhood, I'm going to look into that. And that's what happened. I made it out of childhood and went to graduate school.

Katie Wrigley (02:53.294)
Wow. That is, do you have any idea what made your mom or maybe compelled your mom to invite you to go with her that evening?

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (03:01.235)
Yeah, I was so...

I guess just I was so unhappy as a kid and I had an eating disorder and I couldn't find my way. at the time that I went, nobody knew this, but I was also a survivor of childhood sexual abuse beginning at the age of about seven. And with that kind of filling in the gaps, it certainly

Katie Wrigley (03:30.02)
Bye.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (03:37.367)
well, I guess at least to me, made sense where so much of that pain came from. And as I've learned as a therapist and well, just in living, if we don't talk it out, we're gonna act it out. And so I was doing a lot of acting out because I could not manage, I didn't know how to think about it or how to talk about it. And so it was trying...

you know, was finding ways to come out and unfortunately those aren't very healthy ways. But I credit those unhealthy manifestations of my pain for ringing some bells that I needed help. So that's how I got there.

Katie Wrigley (04:20.241)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

I'm so glad that you did and now you can, you're in a position to draw from your own personal experience to help others. So in your professional opinion, not just from your own experience, and I have had some of this in my past as well, and I'm really noting lately before I ask the question, I'm really understanding the impact that this event or repeated events in my case that happened to me as a child and it was sexual abuse related and happened before the age of seven.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (04:25.964)
Thank you.

Katie Wrigley (04:54.434)
What is the enormity of that impact on a child who isn't protected in those younger years? And what is the likelihood they're going to turn to addiction or become pretty self -destructive in later years due to that early childhood abuse and trauma?

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (05:11.052)
Well, my mind was racing as you were talking and asking this question. I don't have a statistic. I just have 25 years of anecdotal experience as a clinician. And then the work that I did myself, I think there is a profound link between early experiences of

significant boundary violations that include our mind and our bodies and the development of maladaptive coping mechanisms to deal with those violations. I think that the first part of your question was what kind of what happens to a person? Well, we at least for me, I didn't know it at the time, but I was I was trying to find a way to be invisible.

And then kind of in hindsight again, I became progressively more and more visible. I think that's part of the eating disorder, literally shrinking myself down, making myself smaller. The making myself smaller was directly related to the powerlessness that I think so many of us feel and how literally small we are in the world.

Katie Wrigley (06:20.729)
Mm

Katie Wrigley (06:36.163)
Mm -hmm.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (06:40.713)
where other people can, well, do what they want and to the most vulnerable people. And there's, I mean, there's no manual for how to be in this world anyways, let alone how to survive. And now, you

Katie Wrigley (06:52.44)
Right.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (07:08.891)
in an attempt to look on not the bright side of things, but what an incredible opportunity people who have been harmed have who make it. I think we're remarkable. think that life is hard enough on its own and we are wired to survive. And I went to tremendous lengths.

Katie Wrigley (07:32.91)
Mm

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (07:37.438)
to survive and what's what's often time I think what what helps me as a clinician. There's a saying that I heard for those who understand an explanation isn't necessary and for those who don't understand an explanation is impossible. And because of my own personal experiences, I can sit with somebody like a new client, for example, and I haven't shared my story, but there is a

Katie Wrigley (07:50.755)
Mm

Katie Wrigley (07:55.021)
Mm.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (08:07.54)
There's a connection there. And both of us know it. But it's difficult to explain, which I think is the beauty of a therapeutic relationship with somebody that you don't have to explain yourself to. That doesn't require an explanation, justification. You can just be a mess, and that's OK. And I think that's...

Katie Wrigley (08:09.592)
Mm

Katie Wrigley (08:13.304)
Yeah.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (08:37.227)
That's a unique opportunity to afford somebody. You know, and it's not necessarily altruistic. I mean, it's what I... I'm not qualified to do anything else. It's how I've kind of put it to other people. And that has its pros and cons. But being a highly sensitive person has been great.

Katie Wrigley (09:00.544)
Yeah.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (09:06.831)
And it's tiring at times.

Katie Wrigley (09:11.086)
yeah. Yes, absolutely. I also identify as being highly sensitive and two weeks ago we had a big Cognitive Movement event out in San Diego and I really realized on a whole new level how sensitive I am to energy. And so in that, it was a five day conference and it is amazing. And through the conference, Liz and Bill, the head of Cognitive Movement, they take people from shame up through enlightenment as per David Hawkins and power versus score.

force with his map of consciousness, I believe he calls it. And they were at the level of grief. And for some reason, I thought, okay, I'm like, I'm curious what I feel when I stand in front of the room.

I couldn't stand in front of the room. The grief that was coming off of everybody as they attached to it was so high. I started to well up even though I wasn't actually feeling any grief. I'm like, my gosh, I need to go back over to the side where I can be an observer mode and I'm not. And I'm like doing all my energetic stuff to help kind of protect my body. I'm like, wow, I really feel energy. Like, this explains so much. Because before you get that awareness, you don't realize how influenced you get by other people. And I agree that being highly sensitive

That allows us to have a level of empathy that people who are less sensitive may have to work harder to get. I'm not saying that they can't reach it, but I think it comes easier to highly sensitive people because we're just wired that way. We're feeling everything everywhere all the time.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (10:38.174)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, it's not, it's, you know, it's not fun. It's, it's, no. It's just one of those things that I guess we, like anything else, we learn to adapt to. And now I appreciate it. Like, you know, Dr. Brene Brown's book, you know, a book about the gifts of vulnerability and

Katie Wrigley (10:44.662)
No, no, no, it's not.

Katie Wrigley (11:04.461)
Yes.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (11:06.919)
That's just a powerful statement because it's not looked at that way. That it's something that we repel. Or I guess we don't. And when you don't repel it, although it's difficult at times to be like a sponge to other people's emotions, I don't know.

Katie Wrigley (11:12.536)
Right.

Katie Wrigley (11:15.865)
Mm

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (11:36.305)
I honestly, there is a part of being as sensitive as I am that I have been teased for, lots more negative, and not that I can, but I wouldn't change it for anything. I just wouldn't.

Katie Wrigley (11:50.137)
Mm

Katie Wrigley (11:57.741)
Yeah, same.

Yeah, I also received bullying and teasing myself for being so sensitive and I also wouldn't change it for the world. I tried to deny it for the longest time and pretended I didn't. So then that would have me like bawling my eyes out at a watching an episode of Baywatch as an example, like something that doesn't normally elicit tears and I'd have a massive emotional purge. like.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (12:21.756)
That's so funny. I have this ongoing joke that I cry at AT &T commercials. It's the same kind of thing.

Katie Wrigley (12:27.78)
I get it. Yeah, it's like, all right. I'm not acknowledging some emotion that came from somewhere like this is not a response that's in alignment with what I'm watching. Like it's friggin Baywatch. Like really? Why am I crying? And I mean, like the shirt was wet level of tears crying. I'm like, what is going on? Like I'm still a teenager. I don't get it. You know, like, okay, this is weird.

But yeah, that's what it's like to be highly sensitive. But when we get into these roles like you're in now, and I love that you've been doing this for 25 years. I've been able to do it full time for three. And childhood trauma has been a huge piece of almost everyone's story that's come to see me.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (13:13.65)
Yeah, like at my treatment center, it's called the Encino Detox Center. we have the two levels of care are detox and residential. of the, I don't even know how many now, over a hundred clients, we've been open for about a year and two, three months. We've had a little over a hundred clients. And of the male clients,

Katie Wrigley (13:25.006)
Mm

Katie Wrigley (13:37.092)
Mm

Katie Wrigley (13:40.398)
Wow.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (13:43.687)
I'm just tracking how many men who come in have a past experience of an unwanted sexual experience. And I call it that because not everybody calls it trauma or different names for it. And we're at about 67%.

Katie Wrigley (14:10.436)
Gosh.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (14:10.824)
which was, I knew that it was really high. I know that the national kind of statistics are one in four girls and one in six boys have experienced an unwanted sexual experience before the age of 18. But your earlier question about how frequent or common is the connection between the development of an addiction and trauma.

Well, in our case, 67%. And it's been a specialty, I guess, of mine for quite some time. But that wasn't my initial intention of opening the Encino. It was to be a drug rehab because I'm a drug addict and alcoholic in recovery. But there are so many commonalities underneath the drugs and underneath the booze.

Katie Wrigley (14:45.55)
which

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (15:09.435)
The pain is very similar. And that, I think, is one of the things that makes us different as a treatment center, is that we don't sit around and talk about booze and drugs. We talk about the commonality, the binding agent, which is pain. And all of our stories are different. But the pain is, I just want to say, the same. We know people who have experienced

Katie Wrigley (15:11.587)
Mm

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (15:39.939)
know, tremendous loss or abuse of any kind, whatever the situation might be. There is a pain that I think that we share in common. I'm writing a book called Foraging, The Longing of Lonely Children. And the idea of foraging isn't usually applied to

looking to like a walking umbilical cord, looking to plug in somewhere to meet a whole host of needs and as a forager of, I mean, in my experience, food and opiates and alcohol and then times of depletion and no food and

Katie Wrigley (16:16.088)
Mm

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (16:39.911)
It just was a different way. think that my brain was looking at this common experience and it's been life -changing for me and I know for so many of the clients that have come through here and clients over the last 25 years. Boys and men do not sit around talking about

being sexually abused. just don't. And we don't talk about eating disorders and we don't talk about loneliness. But I do. And it's quite something to be a fly on the wall in a room of men talking about things that men don't generally talk about. It's life changing.

Katie Wrigley (17:34.998)
Yeah, I can't even imagine it would be such an honor to be able to be in that room and hear that, you know, and I'm so glad that you're providing this safe space for men because that's a big flaw in society and pointing the finger also at women. There aren't that many women who have evolved enough yet to be able to hold space for a man to talk about those kind of experiences because it hasn't been acceptable for so long. So it's not just men that are

told to be stoic, we haven't allowed that space as a general rule yet. We aren't quite there. I hope we will get there pretty soon. But I'm happy and really excited and behind any man that I hear such as yourself, and I've heard some others out there that are really stepping into their strength as leaders and owning a lot of the trauma, including sexual unwanted trauma that they've had in their life.

that people tend to think doesn't happen to men. It's like, look, women may get sexually traumatized more frequently, but that doesn't mean that men aren't impacted. And it's going to have a different psychological impact on a man and a woman, just the way that we're raised, the way that we're told what is we should or shouldn't, using air quotes, if you're listening and not watching, do with our bodies. And so there is a different kind of response to it. The same way

You know, I'm not even gonna go there. I was gonna do kind of a lower vibrational people who don't understand same sex relationships. I don't even wanna go there though, because that's not what this is about. This is about helping people who are trying to move forward and heal themselves. And thank you for creating Encino Detox to give that space to men that they can start to heal these things and realize that they don't have any reason to feel shame over what they've gone through. So thank you.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (19:25.046)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. My pleasure.

Katie Wrigley (19:29.154)
So what kind of, you already started to talk about it a little and I was kind of, actually I want to tap before we go more into everything you do at Aceto Detox, can you talk a little bit about what's happening in the brain and nervous system that allows an addiction to get created? Like what are some of the things, as a, I know it's gonna be different for everybody, but one of those general themes that you're seeing that basically leads someone into addiction and keeps them in there.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (19:57.701)
Well, most of us engage in lots of different behaviors for the very simple reason to have needs met. I mean, we all have different needs, but it's kind of a small list, generally speaking. And so the need for to quiet the brain to

Katie Wrigley (20:16.75)
Mm

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (20:27.628)
alleviate emotional suffering. That's why some of us pick opiates and booze and some of us pick methamphetamine and cocaine and different needs are being met. And specifically in the brain, it literally gets hijacked. It becomes the perfect environment for somebody, for this discussion, somebody who's experienced trauma and is in

been in this process of retreating from relationships, both with themselves and with other people. There is an ease.

The ability to turn the world off, to hit pause and to step off for a little while is an incredibly powerful experience. And what gets reinforced with somebody who has a traumatic history, who then develops a relationship with substances or behaviors, is that coming from experiences of zero control to being

Katie Wrigley (21:23.076)
Yeah, it is.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (21:42.199)
to putting ourselves in a position to be able to manage, destructively, to manage our life experiences, our emotions, to down -regulate, to up -regulate, whatever it is the need is in that moment, is a profound experience. And when we try to talk to people intellectually about the dangers

of substance abuse and just say no, we're just having two different conversations. And it's oftentimes why it doesn't work because it's not being seen through the lens of the person in pain who has turned to substances to meet the needs that people have not or that person doesn't trust can.

Katie Wrigley (22:19.918)
Right.

Katie Wrigley (22:39.331)
Mm

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (22:39.491)
just based on their own life experience. So back to the one of the first things I said is we are wired to survive. And it's an extreme example, but people who struggle with like self injurious behavior, like cutting, burning, scratching, that is seen by most people as a suicidal gesture. Whereas I see it

Katie Wrigley (22:50.797)
and

Katie Wrigley (23:07.064)
Mm

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (23:08.5)
as suicide prevention.

Katie Wrigley (23:10.841)
Mmm. Yeah, I agree with that actually.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (23:12.323)
And it's the lengths to which people will go to live another day. At best, even living daily with the ambiguity of wanting to live and not wanting to live. So, yeah, I just think when the amygdala, when the frontal cortex,

Katie Wrigley (23:20.226)
Yeah.

Katie Wrigley (23:30.766)
Yeah.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (23:42.69)
the different parts of our brains are activated and satiated and that something on a much bigger level happens organically. And that's why for most of us addicts in recovery or not in recovery, in the midst of the addiction, it doesn't feel like a choice. Once we pause that addiction, get a little bit of clean time,

if that begins to, it takes on more of a choice is a factor now. I have this toolbox of new coping mechanisms. I'm either going to use it or I'm not. On some level, that part is a choice. There's a lot of debate out there on, you know, the disease model of addiction. I don't even know where I stand. This second, I don't even care. I just...

Katie Wrigley (24:26.232)
Mm

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (24:43.265)
I know that for me it got to the point where I didn't want to live anymore. I wrote a suicide note. I prepared. I drank a bottle of vodka all before eight o 'clock in the morning and I was done. And for whatever reason, I called 911 on myself.

Katie Wrigley (24:54.009)
Mm

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (25:12.658)
and asked for help. to this day, I don't know why. But God knows I'm grateful that I did make that choice. And in that moment, it was a choice, I suppose. You know, the psychiatrist at the psych hospital said, did you drink that much?

Katie Wrigley (25:13.006)
So, bye.

Katie Wrigley (25:35.523)
I'm great.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (25:42.177)
to get the courage to end your life? Or did you drink that much hoping that you would pass out to avoid ending your life? And I thought it was a really great question that I still don't have the answer to.

Katie Wrigley (25:53.972)
Katie Wrigley (25:59.916)
Wow, wow, that person has some insight, wow.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (26:00.913)
Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (26:04.545)
Yeah. And so I'm not, I don't think of myself as like a grateful addict or alcoholic or I just don't think about things that way. What I am grateful for is the ability to have experienced things that millions of other people have and wanted to talk about it or at least wanted to be available if somebody else wanted to talk about it.

Katie Wrigley (26:30.947)
Mm

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (26:35.296)
Because I've learned that we don't die from thoughts and feelings. We just don't. We become terrified of them. And sometimes what's wrong with us is the way that we think about us.

Katie Wrigley (26:42.83)
No.

Katie Wrigley (26:55.384)
Yeah.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (26:55.445)
Like maybe that's it. Not to minimize it, but I didn't know that it was an option to think differently about myself. We do this very powerful writing exercise, a title, What If I'm Wrong About Me? And it's very simple. Somebody's asked, if you came to believe that you were wrong about you, how would your life be different? And the result of

Katie Wrigley (27:05.763)
Bye.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (27:23.808)
of honestly looking at that question is really simple and profound. Well, I would be happy and I wouldn't be afraid and I would take more risks and I wouldn't procrastinate. And they just lay out a blueprint for at least the way that I look at it. They've just given us a roadmap of what it is that this person wants.

Katie Wrigley (27:51.094)
Mm -hmm, absolutely.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (27:53.182)
And then makes it easier to go find that because it was in you the whole time. We needed to find a creative way to get it out. And then the last thing on that is most of the thoughts we have about us, I have found, don't even belong to us. They were ascribed either in somebody's words or actions.

Katie Wrigley (28:04.718)
and

Katie Wrigley (28:13.09)
now.

Katie Wrigley (28:19.726)
Mm

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (28:22.173)
And it's a lot, for me at least, it was easier to relinquish something that wasn't mine to begin with. But as children, we take it on as it must be true.

So.

Yeah, thank you for asking these questions. I forget to remember. It's like a joyful conversation to have, even though it's addressing things that I spent 30 years or more not talking about. So I appreciate.

Katie Wrigley (29:08.185)
Right.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (29:13.194)
the work that you're doing and speaking it out into the world so that people can, on our website there's a statement, a quote that says something like, the most powerful words in the world are me too. That moment that you realize that someone else in the world has had a similar thought or experience as you have.

I think that that's the binding agent for coming to treatment is hearing something that resonates because we think we're alone.

Katie Wrigley (29:53.412)
We do. And that hit me right in the feels, just the warmth that you feel when someone tells you like you're sharing your most gut wrenching, shameful moment in life and someone goes, yeah, me too. And suddenly it's your shame is like, like, wait, I'm not alone. It's so supportive. And I really appreciate you answering so candidly and vulnerably. And you, there's a couple of things that you said that I want to go back to. The first is,

that ability to shut out the world. If you have never been in pain, I don't expect you to understand how hard it is. And I'm talking emotional and physical pain. And honestly, as someone who's dealt with huge quantities of both, the emotional pain oftentimes is harder to deal with than the physical pain because we haven't been taught what to do with it. And when you have empowered yourself, even though it's not healthy, but when you have felt like people have taken your power,

Part of what I heard and what you said, Andrew, is that that addict who's starting to engage in whatever that activity is, they're empowering themselves to take control and help themselves in that moment. No, it's not healthy. No, it's not the best thing for them. But that is the first step to them starting to feel like they can actually be a sovereign soul and not dictated by other people who have hurt them and violated their boundaries from a young age. And I am an addict myself.

Sugar, honestly, was the hardest one to kick, but I had a cocaine habit that I'm now seven years away from. I was a binge drinker, which I'm now six years away from. did a whole bunch of other crap that was really bad for me that I'm now a good deal removed from. And I know that roller coaster. And the only reason I didn't get addicted to opiates, because I remember the first time a doctor gave me an opiate, I was like, my God, this is a fuck it all pill. I care about nothing right now. Give me more.

And then I puked. I'm like, I don't really like that part. And I still took them on and off. But thank, thank God that I don't tolerate any synthetic painkiller because I would have gone down the opiate rabbit hole. I have no doubt. know myself too well to think anything else. It was because they made me so sick. That's what kept me from that. And thank God that that's the way my body was built. I don't tolerate any synthetic pain meds, including Tylenol.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (32:05.782)
-huh.

Katie Wrigley (32:16.022)
Advil, Aleve, none of them. They all make me sick, which is tricky with high pain, but it's also led me to figure out other ways to heal the pain that actually lasts a lot longer than an Advil too. But those days where I didn't have the awareness, that silence that that addiction would give me, that that line of Coke would give me, or that opiate would give me, or that drink that I was having on my own where no one could see me.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (32:17.938)
Hmm.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (32:21.501)
Lucky!

Katie Wrigley (32:46.276)
that was where I got peace and then come out of it and there would be the shame and then that would make me want to continue to go back to it again. I think Brene Brown talks about that the best, you know, and I resonated with her poo poo platter of addiction because that was me. I cigarettes for 18 years and took cannabis from fun recreational to abused and I no longer abuse it. However, because I've used it for so long, I am in full disclosure.

still working to break that dependence. I still use it for sleep because I've been using it since I was 19. So that's going to take a little bit longer for my nervous system to acclimate not having it. my gosh, compared to the level I was abusing it before, I don't abuse it anymore. I take my dose at night. That's it. And I don't like that. I still need it. So I am still working to clear that out. But at some point you've kind of pickled yourself a little bit and it's going to take the body a little bit more time.

You can unpickle, but you can find a new neural pathway that supports the behavior that you want and you can create a new one. And I just, haven't gotten there in my healing yet, but I know I will.

Katie Wrigley (33:56.996)
Can you tell us more about Encino Detox? So you mentioned there you have two levels. You have the residential and then the detox side. So who is Encino Detox for? And then tell us how we can find you, Andrew.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (34:09.053)
Okay. We are primary substance use disorder treatment center. We are licensed with the state and accredited through the Joint Commission on Accreditation. We have 12 beds, all single rooms. We put this place together meticulously from the single rooms for some privacy to

the thread count to the executive chef who was trained by Wolfgang Puck to the layout of the facility and the jacuzzi and the hammock areas and it's a giant sprawling outside and now that it's not so hot, we spend a lot of time outside and

It's for men and women over the age of 18 where substances, including alcohol, are the primary disorder as opposed to mental health being the primary. So for us, we're dual diagnosis, substance first, then mental health. And they're always paired up and going together on some level.

Katie Wrigley (35:26.787)
Mm

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (35:38.365)
So that's who it's for. Men and women come from all over the country. And we certainly aspire to being the type of place that men and women choose to come to from all over the world. We're finding our foothold. know, somebody said, well, what do you specialize in? And well, that's a more complicated question.

For me, because we don't specialize in everything, and everybody's unique and has a little bit of a twist, and so although I might love alcohol like you do, I may or may not be the right place for you. So we do a really thorough assessment and our medical directors double board certified in addiction medicine and psychiatry and just to make sure that

Katie Wrigley (36:27.531)
and

Katie Wrigley (36:37.177)
Wow.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (36:39.708)
This can be the right place for somebody. Yeah, that's who it's for. People who want to end the isolation and despair that comes with oftentimes long -term substance use and they don't, you know, person who doesn't want to hide anymore and has the freedom to not have to.

Katie Wrigley (36:48.758)
Awesome.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (37:10.235)
Our average length of stay is about 28 days. Most of our clients come on insurance using their PPO benefit. It's either that or cash pay and the business department will work out whatever we can with somebody.

Katie Wrigley (37:15.139)
Mm

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (37:37.797)
We've gotten it to where we can get a phone call and that person admitted within two hours.

Katie Wrigley (37:45.04)
wow. I just got full body chills. That's so good. That's so needed. When you've got someone in crisis, you cannot wait days. You need to get them in there now before they do something to hurt themselves or end their life.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (37:47.601)
huh. Yeah.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (37:57.359)
Yeah, so we're really proud of that. The team is great.

Yeah, that's this place that I've been thinking about this place for 25 years before I even knew about like what it would be called. I just took a little bit from here and a little bit from there. And then 25 years later was in a position with the owners to put my thumbprint on it. And I couldn't be happier.

Katie Wrigley (38:15.566)
Yeah.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (38:36.89)
If I didn't do anything else, but helped to open this place, that would be enough. being Jewish, that's like a dienu. If the only thing I ever did was open this place, that would have been sufficient.

Katie Wrigley (38:55.262)
I love that. And you're clearly so passionate about your work and I can tell how much you love the people who are coming into your facility to get healed. Like you, you can't have the level of passion that you have without mad love for your fellow human being and a strong desire to help them to the greatest degree that you can. And you're doing that. And thank you.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (39:13.666)
Agreed. Agreed. We are a pain in the ass group of people, historically, and make it difficult to love and care about. yeah, like you said, can't help it. I don't want to help it because it doesn't have to be that way. I have this great sign. I used to work with adolescents and I had a sign on my door that said, people who need the most love.

Katie Wrigley (39:33.334)
No.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (39:43.67)
oftentimes go about asking for it in the most unloving of ways. And that couldn't be more true than the work we're doing here at the Encino.

Katie Wrigley (39:49.421)
Yes.

Katie Wrigley (39:54.336)
Absolutely. Yeah, and there's so much truth in that statement too, Andrew. When I think back to how I used to ask for love when I was really broken, really traumatized, hadn't started to do any of this work, I was nasty. I was awful. And I'm like looking back, I'm like, no wonder people left my life.

That was a lot. And I really commend the people who were able to see through that and see who I really was and where people are still in my life. And I'm so grateful for them. yeah, addicts are not the easiest bunch. Not at all. You can't trust them. What is that old saying? How do you know an addict's lying? Their mouth is moving. In some ways, there is truth to it. But in others, it's so condescending and hopeless.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (40:28.122)
No, we're not.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (40:33.028)
True.

Katie Wrigley (40:46.592)
Trust can be earned back, and that addict, they're coming from a deep shame pattern and they can't help but continue to lie. Until they start to heal, that's going to be the default. So just try to have compassion. If you do know of an addict in your life who's really struggling, just try to look at it through that lens. This is the best they can do. Send them to Andrew to Encino Deep Works.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (40:56.826)
Yeah.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (41:09.592)
Yeah. Yeah. Happy to have anybody. yeah, thank you for having me as a guest and providing the opportunity to talk about us and myself.

Katie Wrigley (41:23.864)
Yeah, and thank you for taking the time out of your day to do that. And thank you also for creating Encino Detox. Is there one last call to action that you would want to give someone who is really struggling with addiction right now? Just a message of hope before we wrap up.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (41:46.251)
thinking that it should be so easy and there's a million of them. I just know for myself when I stop thinking I could do it by myself is when the quality of my life changed. And what was underneath that and what's underneath that for so many of us is fear. And if we can put fear to the side for a minute.

Katie Wrigley (41:58.883)
Mm.

Katie Wrigley (42:02.308)
Yep.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (42:15.381)
And like in AA meetings every morning, every day I'm reminded of the only thing I have to do today is like an AA saying, the only thing I have to do is the next right thing. That's it. And it makes things a lot easier than what about this bill and what about my kid and my wife. And I just have to do the next right thing.

Katie Wrigley (42:29.667)
Mm

Katie Wrigley (42:35.405)
It does.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (42:45.782)
And maybe that answers the question. That bit of hope is to just do the next right thing. And I guess that's great about life is that it gives us that opportunity each day we wake up. It's like a reset button. So hopefully today's the day for somebody who's going to listen to your show. And they make a call.

Katie Wrigley (42:49.474)
I think it does.

Katie Wrigley (43:03.084)
It is. is.

Katie Wrigley (43:11.95)
Yep, and today is the day. If you've been thinking about getting into detox and you're listening to this podcast, that's not an accident. Please go to the show notes, click to the link for Encino Detox and grab some time with Andrew or another member of his staff and let them know you need help. There is no shame in it and your entire life is waiting for you. What is gonna be possible for you to do?

when that addiction is in the rearview mirror. And I know it's never fully in the rearview mirror. We always want to remember that we're addicts, but look at what Andrew's done with his life and being of service to people for 25 years to help them get out of hell the same way that he had been in himself. What do you do with your life? What do you want to do with your life? And you have to be here to make it possible. So just start to think about that. Reach out to Encino Detox and take that next right step.

for yourself, everybody.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (44:06.327)
Yeah, our phone number is really easy. It's 833 -4EDC -HELP, which is 433 -2435. Yeah.

Katie Wrigley (44:17.016)
Thank you. Thank you. We'll make sure that that is in the notes as well. So appreciate that. Thank you again for joining me today, Andrew. It's been an honor to get to spend time with you. And thank you, audience, for you listening. I know you have a lot of choices of what to listen to out on the internet, and I really appreciate you spending your time and energy today with us. I hope you're going to come back again next week for another episode. And until then, please be well.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (44:24.129)
course.

Andrew Levander, LMFT, M.A.C. (44:27.957)
Yeah, you too. Thank you, Katie.